“Why (and how) to replace fear with faith”
Life can be scary! So many decisions, so many challenges. What if you fail? What if you don’t get what you need, to do all you were put here to do? What if everything goes wrong? Managing fear can be a daily battle. But there IS a way to journey through life with the peace that passeth all understanding. Doing so may not be as complicated as you think, and living with that kind of faith may even have more rewards than you realized.
Enjoy this interview by Tresta Neil with me from the 2018 Called to Learn Curriculum Conference, and discover how you can live with greater faith.
Following is a gift from show host, Tresta Neil:
“The 2018 Called to Learn Curriculum Conference is now available for anyone seeking for more direction in family projects, learning the lost arts and seeing all things (spiritual and academic) through the lens of the gospel. For more information go CalledtoLearn.com/conference2018 to see more videos from this conference and get 30% off the conference and other memberships by using the code: rarefaith”
Watch the video of our interview here:
TRANSCRIPT:
ANNOUNCER: Welcome to the Rare Faith Podcast where the solution to every problem is only an idea away, where the same activity with just a little more awareness always yields better results. Award-winning bestselling author, Leslie Householder brings some of her best information to this inspiring series of life-changing episodes that you won’t want to miss. Show notes for this episode can be found at ARareKindofFaith.com.
TRESTA: Hi, this is Tresta Neil with Called To Learn Conference, and we have Leslie Householder here and she’s going to be speaking to us about fear. Leslie, thank you so much for coming.
LESLIE: Thanks for having me.
TRESTA: I’d like to begin with asking you a question about your education. Tell me about your education experiences as a child first.
LESLIE: Oh wow. Well, I grew up in Utah until I was ten with just the regular public education. Just before I turned ten, my family moved us to Singapore.
TRESTA: Oh.
LESLIE: And we participated in an American school there and that was interesting, and then after about nine months, we moved to Indonesia for three years. I was at an international school and I enjoyed excelling. I enjoyed taking whatever they told me to do and trying to be amazing at it. I thrived on doing what I was told and so we moved back to the States and I was in Arizona for most of high school but then my senior year, we moved to New York and I had a difference experience there. In that situation, it was a different culture altogether. It was very Jewish, Italian, a much different experience and different political slant on things also. So that was interesting but I went to school at Brigham Young University and I got a degree in Mathematics Education.
TRESTA: I didn’t know that.
LESLIE: Not because I loved math but because I was determined to conquer it.
TRESTA: Oh, okay.
LESLIE: It was my weakest subject and I went for it, and the thrill of conquering was awesome but when I started my family and we were raising our children in California, I had a friend who was homeschooling her children and I was intrigued by that whole way of thinking. I really thought about homeschooling for ten years.
TRESTA: Wow.
LESLIE: Before I got the guts to do anything because I knew the kind of education I’d received, and was pretty sure I couldn’t duplicate that for my children. And so there was a lot of fear around that until I, I got to a place where I had a shift of thinking. And that is that I believe we are all born with an innate desire to learn everything we will need to know to accomplish our purpose here on Earth.
TRESTA: Yeah.
LESLIE: And a lot of times, this prescription of everybody learning the same things at the same time, to what end? When I felt that call to kind of get out of the way and let my children, you know, watch them and see what are their interests, what is that innate desire guiding them to learn? That’s a whole different kind of journey.
TRESTA: Yeah.
LESLIE: And we did that for some time, and it has its ups and downs, for sure but so.
TRESTA: It’s more of a test of faith, right?
LESLIE: Absolutely.
TRESTA: It’s jumping in with fear and trembling.
LESLIE: It’s a test of principles.
TRESTA: Yeah.
LESLIE: And that’s something that throughout my life, I remember being a young mom and struggling with just, with the demands and challenges of raising a young family on a tight, tight budget, and trying to be a stay-at-home mom and all of that was just next to impossible but I didn’t believe it was impossible because I believed we could figure it out. It was just a long time in coming but through that, I remember thinking ‘what is the principle that I can hang onto?’ Because if I could find the true principle I could cling to then everything’s going to be fine. I was just looking for the principles to grasp.
TRESTA: Ah, how did you know to look for the principles?
LESLIE: I don’t know. I think it was that innate desire to learn everything I needed to know to do what I’m put here to do.
TRESTA: Wow.
LESLIE: I think God gives us questions before He can give us answers, right?
TRESTA: Yeah, that’s awesome. So, is there any other, once you graduated from BYU, is there any other education, formal education that you took or informal?
LESLIE: I did a lot of study with seminars. You know, personal development, business development. We were trying to find a way to afford life, ha ha.
TRESTA: Yeah.
LESLIE: Support a large family of four, keeping me home from work. All those questions looking for answers and did a lot of, a lot of reading, a lot of studying outside of college, for sure. Because you know, college and regular schooling doesn’t answer all of the questions.
TRESTA: The facts of life, yeah.
LESLIE: It’s my testimony now that what school is for, and should be for, is to teach us how to love learning and if we can love learning, then we’ll figure everything out along the way as we need to.
TRESTA: Yeah, I like that. So give me some examples of things that you learned that was different between the education that you got at a public school versus the education you started doing on your own and learning.
LESLIE: Well, most of what I was learning outside of that system, that I was hungering to understand was an education around how our thoughts affect our results. And that’s because we went for, I’d say about seven years after we got married, where we were doing all the same things that people were saying we should do to find our feet and to get ahead, and it wasn’t working for us. And as far as I could tell, the only, the only variable in the equation was the way we were thinking and so it was one of those questions I think God planted in me was ‘figure this out’.
TRESTA: Yeah.
LESLIE: ‘Notice this, figure this out’. I had read a book when I was a youth called As A Man Thinketh by James Allen. I know President Kimball has quoted him in Miracle of Forgiveness and it talks about how everything springs from a thought. How we don’t do anything without first a thought and that by our thinking, circumstances in our life that are unfavorable, as we change our thinking, as we fill that space that unfavorable circumstances can no longer hold us. They just can’t hold us and we move through to better experiences, and so with that seed having been planted as a youth, I think my radar was up to learn more about that. I know my mom had, had an interest in the power of the subconscious mind. I remember being in elementary school and having her help me through memorization exercises that, for my spelling tests.
TRESTA: Wow.
LESLIE: And using, she, she would tell me that “you know, if you help your subconscious mind this way, it will help you back when you need it.”
TRESTA: Wow, that’s awesome.
LESLIE: Good mom, I had a really great mom.
TRESTA: Yeah, that is really great.
LESLIE: So as you can see, it planted seeds for what would become my life’s work.
TRESTA: Yeah.
LESLIE: Part of my life’s work. Once it finally made sense, once all the pieces clicked in my head and there were several epiphanies along the way that kind of brought me to that place but everything changed. Everything went from this struggle to this, this joy and peace of mind, and knowing that even though I can’t see the resources we need, I know they’re coming, I know they’re there. I know they’ll be there and that faith is what, is what qualifies us for that thing, right?
TRESTA: Yeah, yeah, awesome. Now, some of the things that you learnt along the way was the Laws, I remember. Why don’t you touch on like, where did you get that idea? How did you learn the Laws?
LESLIE: Sure. Like I said, we were attending events, just little seminars here and there, ten dollars here, ten dollars there, whatever. Some of them were a few hundred dollars and we were using grocery money to go to these. We started using credit cards to go to these just because I was so hungry for understanding and I knew there was something for me to know.
I remember one time having a visiting teacher come to me. She was talking to me about things and I remember just wanting to pick her brain because her and her husband were not much older than us but they were doing really well. He was already retired, he was our bishop and they had done well enough that they were just full-time parents pretty much. I mean, he did what he wanted to do. He had side things that you know, he would dabble in real estate and what not, but pretty much, they had that freedom.
And I thought ‘how do they think? What does he know that I don’t know?’ ‘What does he think?’ And I remember asking her one time, I said “I just wish I could get inside his brain and know what he knows.” And she kind of shrugged it off like “oh, it’s just experience.” And later when I discovered these Laws that I’m going to share with you, I looked back and I realized she didn’t know. It was unconscious for them. It was this “unconscious competence” of faith and I look back on those first few years and I thought I had faith, I was trying to be faithful.
I was doing everything that I had been taught on how to exercise faith but for some reason, something was missing. And the one seminar that I went to, I told my husband “alright, this is the last one. I can’t keep doing this. It takes me on this rollercoaster of hope to devastation when nothing happens.” Hope to devastation, over and over and over and pretty soon, you feel like you’re going to break, right? And so I agreed to go to one more. Long story short, the gentleman that got up there, he started his presentation with “There is a scripture in the Mormon faith that says…” and he wasn’t LDS.
TRESTA: Oh wow!
LESLIE: It got my attention and he said that, that says, “There is a law decreed before the foundations of the earth.”
TRESTA: “Irrevocably decreed”.
LESLIE: “Irrevocably decreed before the foundations of earth, the earth, that when we obtain a blessing, it’s because we’ve obeyed the law connected to that blessing.” I’m summarizing and that was his opening, and I’m like…
TRESTA: Wow.
LESLIE: ‘So there are laws?? What is this??’ And he proceeded to explain how life works and what it did for me was, it was one of the first seminars we went to that wasn’t all “ra-ra hype, you can do it” motivation and, you know, enthusiasm. In fact, I almost, he came twice. The first time I didn’t listen, it was boring. I didn’t know he was delivering something life-changing!
TRESTA: Interesting.
LESLIE: We had an opportunity to hear him again and I had seen how what he had taught people had changed, how things had changed for them and I’m like ‘I’m not going to miss it this time’.
TRESTA: Yeah.
LESLIE: It was subtle, it was profound, it was beautiful. And the second time he shared it and we got it, I remember just looking at my husband and our mouths dropping open and saying “that’s all it is?? Seven years and that’s all it is??” It’s so simple and shouldn’t truth be simple?
TRESTA: Yeah, yeah.
LESLIE: It should and it is, but after that, we went home and tripled our income in three months and that was after seven years. And so this change was so huge and this, like this, it’s almost like God was always saying “it’s right here for you, it’s right here for you. I want to bless you with this so much.”
TRESTA: Yeah.
LESLIE: “But you’re breaking the law connected to this blessing. Stop breaking that law and then it’s yours, I can give it to you.” And in a nutshell, it’s faith but I could have been told that at that point, I wouldn’t have gotten it. I wouldn’t have known how to use it. So, if it’s okay with you, I’d like to share some of these Laws.
TRESTA: Yes, yes, that would be great.
LESLIE: Alright. So, by the way, after that happened, I ended up training with him; his name was Bob Proctor. I trained with him to become one of his facilitators and it was through him that I learned about these Laws. And since then, I have taken my understanding of them from my, my background and my perspective and it was my desire to bring that information to people like me, people who think like me, people with my background, people who wanted to be stay-at-home moms, people who wanted to be family-focused.
TRESTA: Yeah.
LESLIE: You can use these principles for just about anything but my goals are very family-centered and not everybody has that, and that’s okay. That’s, that’s where I wanted to bring these principles to are families.
TRESTA: Awesome. Most of these are written in your book, right?
LESLIE: Yeah.
TRESTA: Hidden Treasures?
LESLIE: The book is Hidden Treasures – Heaven’s Astonishing Help With Your Money Matters. If you don’t mind, I’ll tell people it’s a free download.
TRESTA: Yeah, we’ll put a link to it.
LESLIE: Yeah, it’s HiddenTreasuresBook.com.
TRESTA: Okay.
LESLIE: But the first Law that I want to talk about, and I’m going to, I usually jump around but I have the book with me so that I don’t jump around too much in case I leave one out. I don’t want to do that.
TRESTA: Okay.
LESLIE: So the first one is called the Law of Perpetual Transmutation. It’s a fancy name for just the idea that everything is perpetually either moving into form or out of form. You can think of anything in the world, it is either in the process of growth or decay, right?
TRESTA: Yeah.
LESLIE: Even a rock is experiencing erosion over time, right? So everything is coming or going. Nothing is constantly staying the same and with that knowledge, we can use that idea for the picture of the ideal life we’re trying to build. We can use that idea for the picture of the way we want to raise our family or the way we want to live with them. It can be even related to how our relationships are.
See it, if you can imagine what that would be like and paint that picture on the screen of your mind, that’s the first step. And I’ll explain why that’s so important that you take that first step because all those years that I was fussing, and fretting and worrying about money, all the seminar people were saying ‘picture what you want. Dream big, picture what you want!’ I’m like ‘yeah, yeah, yeah. Got that, but what do I do?’
TRESTA: Yeah.
LESLIE: And I wasn’t hearing it and if anybody’s heard that before and they’re like ‘yeah, yeah, yeah, got that. Yeah, yeah, that’s a nice platitude’, I’m saying NO. I told you He had these blessings and He was waiting for us to get it right, and there were two things we had to do to get it right and you had to see it done. Number one, you had to see it done.
TRESTA: Like as if it was finished?
LESLIE: As if it was finished.
TRESTA: Okay.
LESLIE: For example, if I’m worried about a lesson I am teaching in church on Sunday and I am worried how that’s going to go, what I do is I imagine myself coming away, or coming home telling my husband “oh man, that was so great. They got so much out of it!” That’s seeing it done.
TRESTA: Yeah, okay. That’s awesome.
LESLIE: And then feeling it as though it’s already happened. How am I going to feel when it’s done and it feels so good that it went well? Allowing myself to feel it ahead of time. Those are the two elements of this faith; this rare kind of faith that Boyd K. Packer talks about. He said “there are two kinds of faith; one of them operates ordinarily in our life” and I am going to summarize. “It’s the faith that tells us the sun will come up because it always has. It’s, it relates us to things that are scheduled to happen. There is another kind of faith, rare indeed” and that’s where I get that rare faith.
TRESTA: Rare kind of faith. Yeah, got that.
LESLIE: “There’s another kind of faith, rare indeed. It’s the kind of faith that causes things to happen. It is a worthy power, unyielding. It comes with great…” . I don’t have it in front of me but it’s a great quote. Boyd K. Packer, rare faith, it’s on my blog.
TRESTA: I can put it up too.
LESLIE: Yeah, perfect. So this Perpetual Transmutation Law that I mentioned, as we picture it and feel it, that starts the creative process in motion. Our Father in Heaven is a creator and we are children of the Father, and we have, we are, in embryo, have the same kind of capability that He has. So that’s the beginning. If you think about an idea like a cloud.
TRESTA: Okay.
LESLIE: And you think about how everything that was ever created had to begin with an idea. Would you agree?
TRESTA: Yeah, definitely.
LESLIE: Everything began with an idea and so as we work to create a different circumstance or better opportunities in our life, it begins with an idea. And as we see it and then feel it, it starts to take shape and what that looks like in our life, it looks like someone on the other side of the city having a conversation that’s going to lead to a job opening, that’s going to lead to a position that’s going to lead to “x, y, z” that opens a door for you. Now, we don’t see that happening.
TRESTA: No.
LESLIE: We don’t see it happening so we, we get an idea of how things can be and then we don’t see any evidence, and we’re like ‘oh, that will never happen!’ And… .
TRESTA: Yeah, yeah.
LESLIE: We broke the law, we broke the law!
TRESTA: Oh interesting. So just like the cloud is forming water, we don’t see that, right?
LESLIE: It’s gathering, the vapor’s gathering.
TRESTA: A cloud, yeah.
LESLIE: And as we, as we reject doubt and as we choose to believe that because I saw it and because I felt it, something out there is happening for me. There is unseen help. I am living in accordance with the Law and I know that as I continue in this belief and faith that things are going to continue to gather just like vapor gathers into a cloud and as it gathers enough, it begins to drop rain.
TRESTA: Ah, the physical.
LESLIE: The physical and if you want to take it further, it can, that rain may become snow or it may not. It may evaporate before it even reaches the ground.
TRESTA: That’s where our doubt comes in, then.
LESLIE: Yeah and, and so when I have an image or a vision in my mind of how I want things to be with my family or how I want to move into a safer neighborhood, or how I want to be able to stay home from work, whatever it takes for those things to happen, I hold the image of it. I believe that it’s possible. I let myself feel it as though it’s already happened and then I don’t doubt. The faith can be itty-bitty like a mustard seed.
TRESTA: Yeah.
LESLIE: The key is no doubt.
TRESTA: Yeah.
LESLIE: And sometimes when I am overwhelmed with doubt because bills are piling up or whatever, there’s fear. I don’t know, any number of things will, will get in the way to make me doubt, right?
TRESTA: Oh yeah. That’s Satan’s greatest tool.
LESLIE: Exactly. Sometimes I have a hard time believing it, and if I can’t see it and feel it and believe it, sometimes I’ll speak it and just say “I choose to believe. I’m declaring it.”
TRESTA: Awesome.
LESLIE: I’m declaring it, and that gains my strength back and in time. And also knowing every seed planted, you know, you water it, you nourish it but even, even seeds in nature can survive a couple of days with toxic rain, you know.
[Laughter]
TRESTA: True!
LESLIE: If you have a bad day, don’t think ‘oh no, I blew it. I guess it won’t happen!’ No. If you have a bad day, you just say “oh, I’m sorry. Alright, I’m back on track. I believe it’s still coming” and you’re still in, in line with the Law.
TRESTA: In congruence. Yes, that’s awesome.
LESLIE: It’s exciting stuff.
TRESTA: It’s so exciting.
LESLIE: It’s powerful.
TRESTA: I was just pondering. My mother just recently moved in with me and she has been going on a mission to the MTC and one of the missionaries invited her to practice faith, like unshakeable faith in something that she didn’t believe would happen and she has extremely poor eyesight. So she said “okay, I’m going to choose my eyesight to see if I can get that better.” And she’s like ‘I don’t know if I can, I mean that’s, you know I’ve been blind since I was born. I don’t think it will happen but I’m going to practice faith without doubting’.
She started praying. She stopped, she pushed all doubt out, out of her, out of her head. And a couple of weeks later, she was interviewing an eye doctor at the MTC as part of her mission and he says “I think your eyes can get fixed through, through a surgery so go to this doctor and ask for this process.” She did and he says “yeah, and I can pay for 100% of it. You don’t have to pay anything either and I can correct your eyesight up to 50%.”
LESLIE: Oh.
TRESTA: Since she was born. So she’s going to have that operation in September and she just, when she was telling me this story, she was just bawling. ‘I never had the faith before and now I do!’ So now she’s in that congruence with that Law and I just, wow, so perfect!
LESLIE: I love that, I love that. Wow, and you know, it makes me think what my prayers were like before. They were “oh Heavenly Father, help! We’re in a mess, this is going to be bad. If this doesn’t happen, look at this train wreck that’s going to happen at the end of the month. Oh my gosh, I don’t know what we’re going to do. Help, help, help!”
[Laughter]
LESLIE: “Oh, I want to save you!” But there’s a Law, you must obey the Law connected with the blessing and it is: do not fear, do not doubt. And honestly, sometimes it’s so hard to kick out the fear when you’re just smothered by it but I found out the cure for fear is not courage.
TRESTA: Oh.
LESLIE: At least for me. The cure for fear has been knowledge.
TRESTA: Oh.
LESLIE: Because when I know the Laws and I know what I need to be doing for the sake of the Law, I can do it because I trust the Laws more than I trust my will. I trust the Laws more than I trust my human frailties.
TRESTA: Wow.
LESLIE: And so, when I have doubt or when I have fear, I can know in that moment ‘okay, well that’s not fun to feel’. Instead, I’m going to take a moment and see it again and feel it again, and declare “I choose to believe.”
TRESTA: Yeah.
LESLIE: And if I’m wrong, what if I’m wrong? See that’s the thing we don’t dare do is we don’t dare believe because what if we’re wrong. We might not be able to handle that.
TRESTA: That’s true.
LESLIE: That’s the thing, we just have to dare to believe and if, for whatever reason God says no, because you know that conference talk about But if not? The “But if not” one? But if not, are we still faithful? Are we still… ? Here’s the thing, we just don’t want to be the limiting factor in what He will do for us.
TRESTA: Oh, I love that.
LESLIE: So it might be a ‘no’ but I’m just going to make sure it’s not a ‘no’ because of me.
TRESTA: That’s a beautiful way of looking at it.
LESLIE: So that way I can have the courage to have faith right up until the end.
TRESTA: Yeah.
LESLIE: Or just keep having faith, even passed the deadline. You know, I mean how, like Lazareth. That was kind of past the deadline.
[Laughter]
TRESTA: Way past. True.
LESLIE: But it’s a beautiful way to live to understand how the Laws work, what’s required of us and just choose to have faith. It feels better anyway, it feels better anyway.
TRESTA: Yeah, it reminds me of peace, right? It’s that, that’s true peace when you know that you are not the limiting factor. And whether it is a yes or a no, or whether a catastrophe happens or not, if you’re not the limiting factor, what peace that must bring.
LESLIE: Right and I’ve found that too, when I do this and I’m diligent with it, and I apply myself to it the best I can, and nobody’s perfect. We don’t do this perfectly because if, if we had to be perfect at it, we’d all, we might all be dead right now. If we don’t live it perfectly, we can rely on the atonement of Jesus Christ to make up the difference. That we’re doing the best we can, we catch ourselves when we have a dip and we do our best to just get back in harmony with the Laws as quickly as possible, and it all still works out. So that brings up, that brings up one of the other Laws and again, I’m going to just jump around because I do that.
TRESTA: Okay. You said you were going to go in order.
[Laughter]
LESLIE: I might be in the right order here. Okay, so with the Law of Perpetual Transmutation, the idea behind that is to see it done and have the faith, believing it, feeling it. If you can’t feel it, declare it, speak it. If you speak it often enough, you’ll start to believe it. You know, you can tell yourself a lie often enough and you’ll start to believe that.
TRESTA: That’s true.
LESLIE: Whereas these things, if you say “we have all we need” when it doesn’t feel like it’s true, that feels like a lie; we’re just telling the truth in advance. You look through the Scriptures how many times God declares things as done before they’d even begun, right?
TRESTA: Yeah.
LESLIE: Like you think of Gideon and the Midianites, how He said “I give you the Midianites. The battle’s won” and it hadn’t even begun yet.
TRESTA: Wow.
LESLIE: And so watch for present tense in the Scriptures and start using present tense in your own thoughts. ‘I have all I need’. You know, ‘we have that opportunity we’re looking for’. ‘Our family is strong’. ‘Our children are happy.’ Whatever it might be, so that’s the idea is to stay in a positive, optimistic place.
Gordon B. Hinkley has so many, so many quotes that he shared about just be optimistic, it will work out. As long as you’re optimistic, things will work out.
He said that so in many ways and so many times, and it’s true and it’s because this Law of Perpetual Transmutation. I didn’t connect it. I didn’t connect that the way I think is going to have that much of an effect on how much God can bless me. So in order to stay in that flow, these other Laws really help.
The second one is called the Law of Relativity and that Law states that every circumstance we find ourselves in, every event that takes place, everything that happens to us is not good or bad, until we relate it to something else.
TRESTA: Okay.
LESLIE: And what we do with that is if we’ve had a big setback and we start feeling fearful or doubtful or upset or any of those things, we can remember the Law of Relativity and say ‘well, in order to stay faithful, I look at this and I say “well, it could be worse”. Here’s how it could be worse.’ And you just create all kinds of scenarios that help you feel better about where you’re at. One way to flip it for you. And we won’t do this here but I just want to challenge those watching to think of any situation that is fundamentally awful, and see if you can’t find how it is also simultaneously good because comparing it to something else.
TRESTA: Yeah.
LESLIE: And Law of Relativity and Law of Polarity, I’m going to skip ahead one, are similar in that way, in that they are there to help us remember, or to help us think more positively and stay in this place.
The Law of Polarity says that in every hardship, in every adversity is the seed of equal or greater benefit. Napoleon Hill said it that way, “that every adversity has the seed of equal or greater benefit” which means if something really, really awful has happened in your life, at the same time it contains the seed of something even better. Not better than it but something equally better.
Like if this is middle and it’s really bad, then it’s actually really good. And so if you’re having a bad day and you just stubbed your toe, that’s a little bit bad so it’s only a little bit good, so the person who is really bad off is actually more blessed. And you think about the adversities that spawned blessings in your own life. Think back to something that was very, very difficult for you to go through but what you gained from it is a tremendous blessing.
TRESTA: Yeah, I can think of one right off the bat.
LESLIE: Tell us about it if you don’t mind.
TRESTA: I was, I was at the hospital with my son. We had to stay there for months on end. He had a liver transplant and while we were waiting there, I just got deeper and deeper into this depression like “oh my gosh, I have six kids at home and they’re not being taken care of. I have to stay with this baby to save his life and there’s him left to help and we can’t leave the hospital” and it was a terrible time for me. And I remember thinking ‘this is so bad, this is so horrible! This is so awful and no one has a worse life than I do” you know, type of thing.
And I decided ‘no, I’ve got to go out of this room’ and I made up my mind to get out of the room every day and go find someone else I could talk to and in every day, no exceptions, I found someone way worse. Either the child was way worse or something was way worse than my situation. And from learning that, I was able to go “whoa, this is incredible. I have a great life” and my joy become better but because of that also, I learned years later, I didn’t think I knew this at the time because I was a shy, quiet person, just stayed to myself. But I had learned because I had done that, I have a voice and I have something to say and I want to share it, and I started talking to people and putting on conferences. And so it changed my whole perspective, yeah.
LESLIE: Well, if it had just been a day in the hospital with a skinned knee and you came home, you probably wouldn’t be doing conferences.
TRESTA: Yeah, I probably wouldn’t. You’re right, you’re right. I probably absolutely wouldn’t.
LESLIE: That would that only be a little bit bad and look at you’ve, you’ve found the seed of equal benefit in that.
TRESTA: Yeah.
LESLIE: It makes me think of a time where I was having a really, really bad day and this was even after knowing these principles but I was just on one.
[Laughter]
LESLIE: You know, when mom isn’t happy, nobody’s happy and I was just, I think I was probably pregnant which I get that way. But I was struggling and I was not being nice to my kids, and my one of my sons, he was, I think, eleven, maybe eleven at the time, he couldn’t take it anymore. He had to get out of there so he got on his bike and he went for a ride, just to get away and I am feeling guilty, I’m feeling angry. I’m all these things and turns out that day when he just went to get away from angry mom, he went to a place that he doesn’t usually travel and he found his little brother there with his pant leg stuck in a chain and he couldn’t get it out.
TRESTA: Wow.
LESLIE: In his bike chain, and it just, God used me. He didn’t make me mad.
TRESTA: Yeah.
LESLIE: He let me get mad and He turned it into a benefit.
TRESTA: Wow.
LESLIE: If I hadn’t done that, my poor seven-year-old, I think he was seven, would have been stuck on the other side of the neighborhood with no help and I don’t know what he would have done.
TRESTA: Yeah.
LESLIE: But his brother came and saved him.
TRESTA: Wow.
LESLIE: I was having a bad day. And so when you look at a hard time, to remember the Law of Polarity and say “this is awful, there must be something amazing in this” and you start looking for it and when you start looking for it, the Law of Perpetual Transmutation kicks in and you start, that, that scenario starts to gather for you and that’s how quickly we can turn adversity to our benefit.
And aren’t we taught in the Scriptures that like when Joseph Smith was in the jail and God said “all these things shall be for thy good.” All these things, and He listed “if all these things happen to you, if the, if the mouth of hell gape wide open after thee, know this, it shall be for thy experience and for your good.”
TRESTA: Yeah. Good and bad, both are good.
LESLIE: Both are good. It’s all good and especially as we see His hand in all things. We live in harmony and He can continue to bless us.
TRESTA: Yeah.
LESLIE: So that’s three Laws. The one I skipped was the Law of Vibration and this one, kind of a funny name for it, I didn’t name these. These are the names I learned them by but if you think about ninth grade chemistry. Everything around us is vibrating on a molecular level, at least the model, the model for atoms and molecules that help us explain chemical behaviors, right? That means that the table in front of me is vibrating on a molecular level.
TRESTA: That’s crazy to think about, but yeah.
LESLIE: There’s space between them and they’re vibrating and the higher the vibration, the more fluid an object is, right? Or the fastest the vibration.
TRESTA: Yeah.
LESLIE: I don’t know the chemistry super well but I know enough, and this Law of Vibration helps me understand that signals are transferred through the medium of vibration. Light travels in oscillating patterns. Sound travels that way and our thoughts have an energy that pulses out a vibration that goes out and resonates with other objects, other people that are in harmony with the image we’ve been holding in our mind for our future.
And so as I let myself imagine the worst-case scenario and get myself worked up with all the things that could go wrong, I’m pulsing out an energetic vibration that’s going to go connect with and resonate with the things that will help me bring that to pass. You’re always creating. We’re always creating but what this does is understanding these Laws, we start to get to choose what we create instead of wondering why all these bad things keep happening to us.
TRESTA: Yeah.
LESLIE: Like it was for me.
TRESTA: I think that’s a really big one. I have an aunt that just worries all the time until pretty soon her family just fell apart. Yeah, I think that’s a big one we could really use.
LESLIE: The good news is you know, sometimes we have created pathways between our neurons. I mean, we’ve got these habits, these thinking habits, that something happens and we automatically go to this trigger or whatever, just out of habit and so if we have a habit of worrying, it can take some time to break that habit and in the meantime, remember there is mercy.
And so if you find yourself worrying and ‘oh, I’m worrying again’, you just consciously relate back to the Laws and look for the one that helps you feel better in the moment. Take a deep breath and ask, ask our Father in Heaven to bless us with more faith. Help thou mine unbelief.
TRESTA: Yeah, over and over again.
LESLIE: Effort, the effort is rewarded. In time, those habits can change to where we have a habit of faith, a habit of belief.
TRESTA: Wouldn’t that be awesome?
LESLIE: It is awesome.
TRESTA: Always is, yeah.
LESLIE: I strive for that, absolutely.
TRESTA: Is there a difference between, like what you said how fast it goes, it’s fluid but is there a difference between the speed of it too? I mean.
LESLIE: I, probably, I don’t know.
TRESTA: I don’t know, okay.
LESLIE: I don’t know how it works. I just know that if we are intense about, you know, if I’m seeing an image on the screen of my mind that I’ve placed there about something that I really need to happen. Like, we need this resource to be here by Friday in order to do this thing that we feel like God needs us to do. Maybe it’s sending a missionary out, whatever it might be but as we see it and let ourselves imagine how it will feel to actually see that miracle come to pass, the more intense that feeling is, I think the more effective it is.
But not to discourage anybody because some people have a hard time generating that and, and it can be gratitude. The gratitude can be the feeling. It can just be a feeling of gratitude and the more intense the gratitude, I think the more, the more strong the connection is with the source of all those blessings. I think He appreciates gratitude; genuine, sincere gratitude but at the same time, it doesn’t have to be intense for it to work. It just has to be without the doubt.
TRESTA: Yeah, yeah. I remember hearing that gratitude has a higher frequency than, I don’t know, say doubt. Doubt has a low frequency.
LESLIE: Definitely.
TRESTA: Yeah.
LESLIE: Definitely, and you know that vibration concept, it just, when I say it, you know, it pulses out and resonates with things that, that match what you’re trying to accomplish, it is as simple as tuning into a station that tunes in with the Spirit, and says ‘you’re in an elevator, say “hi” to that person’ because there’s something with that relationship that’s going to help you both get what you’re trying to accomplish. You have what they need, they have what you need. That happens so many times when you, when you live this way.
TRESTA: Yeah.
LESLIE: And it’s not a surprise. It’s like, I know how that happened. It’s because I was picturing and I felt it, and I knew something would happen and I’ve just been keeping my radar up for what that might be, and I said “hi”. And if nothing comes of it, it doesn’t matter; you did your part.
TRESTA: Yeah.
LESLIE: You did your part. Not being the limiting factor, again.
TRESTA: Yeah, yeah. I love that.
LESLIE: The Law of Rhythm, I love this one too. The Law of Rhythm is all about how everything in nature is cyclical. The seasons cycle around; the leaves fall and grow back. The tide goes out and comes in; there’s a rhythm to life.
TRESTA: Yeah.
LESLIE: And in our life, when things start looking south or start looking bad or starting to go haywire or something, we have a tendency as human beings to think ‘oh my gosh, my whole life is falling apart forever!’
TRESTA: Yeah, we do.
LESLIE: And we forget that the tide goes out and it comes back in. And so when we start seeing things going wrong or we’re having a bad day, and we think ‘oh no, my life is falling apart’ instead, we remember the Law of Rhythm and say ‘oh, this is a horrible day. That means a good one’s coming’ and we start looking forward to the good day, and the Law of Perpetual Transmutation kind of kicks in and it helps it happen sooner. It also changes our vibration so that we are resonating and connecting with the things out there that will help us get that sooner.
So it comes back to: there is nothing bad that you have to get upset over, when you have the opportunity to relate it to something worse. Or you have the opportunity to see it as ‘oh, contained in this is something amazing’ or you can look at it like ‘oh, this is kind of a down day, that means a better one’s coming.’ There’s always a reason to think optimistically again.
TRESTA: Yeah, it’s almost like the Law of Transmutation is, is the foundation though. I think that’s probably why you put it as number one in your book, right? It always comes back to that, to bring back, even in the rhythm, you’re bringing it back in.
LESLIE: Right, so you can stay in faith while all those things are organizing to come.
TRESTA: Yeah.
LESLIE: Come to you.
TRESTA: Maybe that’s why faith is the first principle of the Gospel.
LESLIE: Yeah and you know, you’ve probably heard people talk about the Law of Attraction. I’d say this is related but it’s so much more because with the Law of Attraction, it’s all about your thoughts, your vibrations. It doesn’t account for the bad day where you rely on the atonement. It doesn’t require any accountability to the kind of goals you set. What I call “rare faith” is this all-encompassing idea that we are discerning in the goals we choose. We are good stewards of this, this knowledge of power to co-create with God. It’s very similar to, I mean, if you think about it, the power to procreate needs to be used with wisdom and not all the time everywhere.
TRESTA: Yeah, in the bounds that God has set, yeah.
LESLIE: In the bounds God has set and in a similar way, this is a creative power and it comes with a responsibility as well. And when you hear about the Law of Attraction, that isn’t always part of the conversation.
TRESTA: That’s interesting, that’s good to know. I’ve never made the comparison actually, so thank you.
LESLIE: Well, and also in this list of Laws, the Law of Vibration is the one that is the Law of Attraction if you were to pair them up.
TRESTE: Okay.
LESLIE: But in this collection of Laws, there’s eight and that’s just one of them.
TRESTA: Oh, got you, okay.
LESLIE: The others kind of help you stay there. It’s like the Law of Perpetual Transmutation, is the the law that delivers the goods or whatever it is you’re looking to do. You know, I, I don’t imagine when an apple breaks from a tree that God has to zoom over there and push it down.
TRESTA: Yeah.
LESLIE: The Law’s in place and these Laws are in place, and through His scriptures and through His prophets, He has taught us how to live in harmony with the Laws so He can bless us. If you look at the scriptures and count how many times it says “doubt not, fear not” because it will make you feel better and I have things I want to bless you with, and that is a Law connected to those blessings.
TRESTA: Gosh, this is so beautiful.
LESLIE: It’s powerful. It’s like, I wish it didn’t take me so long to come to understand these.
TRESTA: Yeah.
LESLIE: But had I come to understand them sooner and had it been easier, I wouldn’t be teaching it now, I would never have written the books.
TRESTA: Yeah, yeah.
LESLIE: So let’s get back to the list. The Law of Cause and Effect – there’s a lot to that one that we don’t have time to get into. Again, it’s in the book and it’s a free download but my favorite part of the Law of Cause and Effect is knowing that I don’t have to go the distance. I don’t have to go to do superhuman things and be like an Olympian to achieve the goal. What I want, wants me and it meets me in the middle and each time I take a good step towards it, it steps towards me.
TRESTA: Ah, cool.
LESLIE: I only have to go halfway and in my head that just doesn’t sound quite as hard.
TRESTA: Yeah, yeah.
LESLIE: Especially if I’m imagining other resources gathering for my benefit and if I’m imagining them, then by the Law of Perpetual Transmutation, they are.
TRESTA: Mmmm. Wow, again back to the first. So what is it, you said there’s a law of the cycle and then there’s cause and effect, can you explain just a little bit more what the difference between those two Laws are?
LESLIE: Okay. So the Law of Rhythm just states that the tide comes in, the tide goes out, the tide comes in again. So it helps you, it helps you ride the wave of life, the ups and downs, knowing that the ups and downs are by design.
TRESTA: Okay.
LESLIE: Because we cannot experience happiness without sadness and we see the sadness as good because it helps us understand happiness.
TRESTA: Okay.
LESLIE: With the Law of Rhythm, it also helps me when I’m having a really difficult challenge. It helps me go to my knees and say ‘thank you for this challenge. I have no idea why it’s good for me but at the very least, I know it will help me appreciate the good day that’s coming.’
TRESTA: Yeah, okay.
LESLIE: And that’s because I know it is coming. By law, it has to come.
TRESTA: Yeah.
LESLIE: I believe that and choose that, it comes more; I see it when it comes. I think a lot of times, we can get in this rut and things start to improve but we don’t see it because we’re so focused on how bad things are.
TRESTA: Okay.
LESLIE: You asked about the comparison?
TRESTA: Right, yeah.
LESLIE: To cause and effect. Cause and effect is: I take action and the world around me takes action back.
TRESTA: Okay.
LESLIE: It’s, that’s a law of physics. What’s that law of physics that equal and opposite?
TRESTA: For every reaction.
LESLIE: For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction.
TRESTA: Yeah, okay.
LESLIE: So it keeps me in action. It doesn’t just keep me believing and hoping and thinking that things are going to happen without me acting. It helps me choose to act, knowing that it’s going to cause something to happen.
TRESTA: To come towards you.
LESLIE: Yeah, I won’t see it immediately, probably.
TRESTA: Yeah.
LESLIE: But knowing it’s happening.
TRESTA: I teach a math class and right, it’s a symbolic math class. I’m teaching only on circles; sixteen classes of circles.
LESLIE: Wow.
TRESTA: Cycles comes up a lot, right or rhythm comes up a lot and so does cause and effect but I’ve always put them together. So I’m trying to relate it to this math class as well as to the laws too. So I can see that there’s definitely a difference now.
LESLIE: I think the difference for me is cause and effect, I’m engaged in that. Rhythm is nature.
TRESTA: Oh, that’s a great way of looking at it. Okay, okay, thank you. Yeah, what’s the next Law?
LESLIE: The next one is Gestation, the Law of Gestation.
TRESTA: Oh good.
LESLIE: That every seed has a gestation period, every idea seed has a gestation period. I might think that we can achieve this certain goal in our family in two months and that’s what I’m going to go for, I’m going do the best I can with my best guess.
TRESTA: Mm-hmm.
LESLIE: But it might, that gestation for that seed might actually be four months or six years. So this, this Law of Gestation helps me have the faith long enough. So when things don’t happen when I think they should have happened, I don’t say ‘oh, I wonder if it’s going to’ or ‘I wish, you know, it had by now’ or get into this place of doubt. Instead I, I think about the Law of Gestation. I say ‘well, this one must just have had a longer gestation period than I know’.
TRESTA: Got you.
LESLIE: And it, every one of them has a finite period.
TRESTA: Mm-hmm.
LESLIE: Knowing that it’s finite. If you think about a woman who is expecting a baby, the doctor gives her a due date; that’s not necessarily the day she will deliver.
TRESTA: True.
LESLIE: But if the baby does not come on the due date, does she think ‘oh, I guess this baby thing doesn’t work!’
TRESTA: No.
[Laughter]
LESLIE: Do you think she’s a little more expectant the next day?
TRESTA: Yep.
LESLIE: And the next day. So it’s an interesting way to think about goal achievement that the longer it goes, the more expectant you can get instead of the other way around.
TRESTA: It’s so awesome. My son who is just, he’s returned missionary looking for a wife, broke up, got a heartbreak. He needed to repent so he goes to the bishop and he asked him to repent and the bishop tells him ‘well, you’ve got to have this time and you’ve got to have this.’ You know and finally, he comes to me on Sunday and he says ‘mom, I’ve decided something’.
Now I haven’t taught him very well the laws. I’m not, I haven’t done a very good job on that but he comes and goes ‘I’ve decided something. I think there’s a time period. Everything just takes a certain amount of time and we just have to accept that that time needs to be happening before we do that.’ Isn’t that awesome?
LESLIE: Man, it’s truth, it’s truth.
TRESTA: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
LESLIE: Awesome, that’s awesome. You know, it also helps me when it, if it doesn’t come on time. I remember I want the baby, not the embryo.
TRESTA: Oh yeah.
LESLIE: And our goals sometimes, we think we want the goal achieved yesterday but if it’s delivered too soon, it’s not really what we want.
TRESTA: Yeah.
LESLIE: We trust God to know the best time for those things to come.
TRESTA: I’m going to share that with him. Yeah, that’s awesome.
LESLIE: So that brings us all through the seven main Laws. There is a bonus Law that we talk about.
TRESTA: Okay.
LESLIE: And I don’t know if you want me to go into that or if you want to save that for the book and that’s the Vacuum Law.
TRESTA: No, go ahead.
LESLIE: Okay, so the Vacuum Law is, the longer version is the Vacuum Law of Prosperity. I’m going to just read it to you the way it’s written here. This was the first Law that I consciously tried to apply first because it was easy and it made a lot of sense but then I saw it work in a dramatic way, and it gave me the courage to test the rest of the Laws. But this Law, I learned about from Bob Proctor for the first time during a break at a seminar.
After we visited for a minute, he told me that he’s like ‘you know, you have a really pretty good balance between your right and your left brain’ but he says ‘you’re primarily creative’. And I remember thinking ‘oh, you don’t know what he’s talking about. I’m a math major. I’m always thinking, I’m always analyzing. You know, I am more of an analytical person’ and I told him that. I said ‘you know, I find that interesting. I think I’m more analytical because I’m always thinking, I’m always thinking.’ And he said ‘you’re not thinking’, he says ‘your mind is busy but you’re not thinking.’
TRESTA: Oh wow.
LESLIE: What does that mean? And I analyzed that one for a year.
TRESTA: I bet, I bet.
LESLIE: Analyzing and it dawned on me eventually what he meant by that is ‘to think is to create’. When you’re seeing it and letting yourself feel it, that’s really thinking. To analyze what’s already happened is mind busyness but it only helps you stay stuck where you are or create more of what you already have.
TRESTA: Wow.
LESLIE: And one thing he shared was that he went to his aunt’s house one day and she welcomed him into her home, and she just started apologizing for her ugly curtains. ‘Oh, sorry about these curtains. I mean to keep changing them but I just don’t have the money to change them and so I’m sorry about these curtains’ and she kept apologizing.
He’s like ‘auntie, you love those curtains.’ She’s like ‘no, I don’t. What are you talking about? I don’t love these curtains’. He says ‘oh, you love those curtains. If you didn’t love them, they’d already be gone’ and she says ‘I don’t have money to replace them.’ He says ‘you don’t need new curtains because you have no place to put them’ and so he convinced her that this Vacuum Law says that nature abhors a vacuum.
In other words, it won’t allow you to go long without something filling its space and so he encouraged her to take them down, wash them, give them away to charity and create a space for her new curtains. And he convinced her to do this and he left, and when he came back the next time, she had these gorgeous new curtains up and all of her furniture was gone.
[Laughter]
TRESTA: Wow.
LESLIE: She found out, she found out this Law works and when I heard that, what came to mind immediately was this nasty carpet that we’d been living on. We had purchased a bank repo-ed HUD home.
TRESTA: Okay.
LESLIE: And because that’s what we could afford and the carpet was nasty when we moved in. We didn’t have the money to replace it so we just cleaned it the best we could, always remembering what we had found on it. It was disgusting but we were living on it and I thought ‘well, we need to get rid of this carpet’.
My husband and I, we came home with courage from this education about the Law of the Vacuum and we thought ‘well, I don’t know how it’s going to happen but I believe’. Because we’d learned about Perpetual Transmutation and Relativity, and Polarity and Rhythm, and all those things all together gave us the courage to try this one Law. So we came home and we ripped out the carpet. Well, first we let the kids just trash it.
TRESTA: Okay.
LESLIE: We gave them syrup and ketchup, and said ‘go to town!’ We weren’t going to try to clean it and give it away. It just wasn’t even worth it for the doghouse. So we let them have some fun and then we pulled it out and we threw it in the trash, and then we lived on concrete and tack strips for a couple of weeks.
TRESTA: Wow.
LESLIE: And our radar was up for there’s a way. We can see the carpet we want. We can see things clean, we’re excited about it. We’re taking action – cause and effect – we’re taking action. We’re, we’re exercising faith and we just got busy searching for a way, and we were going in the hole every month already so it wasn’t like we could save up for it.
TRESTA: Yeah.
LESLIE: But this was, this has been 18 years ago when I first tested this and I wish I could tell you where the money came from.
[Laughter]
LESLIE: I don’t remember, I don’t remember. I think it was probably an escrow overage. You know, how those happen. Homeowner’s insurance, escrow overages or something.
TRESTA: Yeah.
LESLIE: But suddenly we had the money. We bought the carpet and it was there, and we’re like’ that worked!’ And yeah, maybe the money would have come there had we not exercised these principles but I think it worked out because if it hadn’t been the carpet, it might have been a medical bill.
TRESTA: Yeah.
LESLIE: We don’t know what we’re being protected from when we’re focused on a vision of where we’re trying to go and living in accordance with the Laws toward that end. We don’t know what kind of calamities or setbacks we were protected from.
TRESTA: That’s true.
LESLIE: So it’s not just about getting the money you need but it’s also getting the money you need with all these other things held at bay, you know.
TRESTA: Yeah.
LESLIE: My son wanted Legos. He wanted fifty dollar sets, you know and they’re just crazy expensive.
TRESTA: Yeah, they’re little bits and pieces.
LESLIE: He was eight and we taught him these Laws, and I said ‘just put it on the fridge what you intend’ and in the back of my head, I’m like ‘oh please, work for him because I’m having doubts’. You know, I don’t know where this is going to come from and we taught him to exercise faith. This is Jacob Householder that you’ve interviewed.
TRESTA: Oh wow. Okay, cool.
LESLIE: This is him. So he put it to the test and my husband was at work one
day, and oh and that’s the other thing. We had some Legos but they were old and
small, and they wanted the fancy pirates and everything.
TRESTA: Oh, okay.
LESLIE: And so we said ‘let’s create a vacuum. Let’s give these Legos to Grandma so that she has something for the kids to play with to make space for the ones we want.’ But at work, someone approached my husband and said ‘hey, my son’s done with his Legos. Could you have any use for them?’ And he’s like ‘actually, yes’ because we’ve been shopping eBay. We’d been shopping and searching for a really good deal, and what she ended up giving us was a trunk probably, I want to estimate maybe two thousand dollars worth of Legos, based on what we were shopping and seeing what things were going for. Because then all of her family said “well I’ve got Legos, I’ve got Legos too’.
TRESTA: Oh my gosh.
LESLIE: And they gathered it together in this huge thing.
TRESTA: Wow.
LESLIE: But he opened them on Christmas Day and fell on the floor. We actually just found that video about two weeks ago, that sometime when we can get it in a viewable place.
TRESTA: Yeah.
LESLIE: But I mentioned this to a friend at that time and she says ‘that’s so interesting, we did the same thing for a snowboard’. And I thought ‘I had no inclination towards a snowboard and she had no inclination towards the Legos but God knows how to give good gifts’.
TRESTA: Yeah, and where to find the right people at the right time, yeah. So did you want to touch more on faith and fear as well or do you, do you feel like that’s the…?
LESLIE: That’s the, that’s the crux is that the cure to faith is not courage. The cure to faith is knowledge and this is the knowledge I wanted to share was the Laws.
TRESTA: Okay, awesome. Well, it’s beautiful. I love it and I’m so glad you did because I know that there are so many people in the audience that they don’t know the Laws, they don’t know them. I went to a seminar a couple years ago with my sister and, and she was saying ‘well, this is so great, this is so great!’
And I’m like ‘I know but it’s so against the Laws. Everything he’s teaching is, it’s against the Laws’ and she’s like ‘what are you talking about? What Laws?’ And I said ‘you know, the laws of the universe’ and she’s like ‘I have no idea what you’re talking about!’ So I got to sit down with her and talk to her and teach her that, and she’s like ‘these are way better than the seminar’.
LESLIE: Well, and I went to a lot of seminars that were teaching me how to beat the competition or how to, how to talk someone into doing something that helps your business.
TRESTA: Yeah.
LESLIE: You know, and it never felt right. It never felt right and I was just in search of what are the principles that can help me accomplish these things without feeling ick, you know, and that’s what these have done.
TRESTA: In your book, you teach about the circle and how if you want a little piece of the pie, you can’t take from somebody else and that’s a horrible feeling.
LESLIE: You don’t need to take from someone else, yeah.
TRESTA: Right, but you expand and everybody benefits.
LESLIE: Right.
TRESTA: I actually taught that in my circle class, I said ‘here’s an example’.
LESLIE: Yeah, the, if that’s your piece, that little piece of the pie and you want more, most people think you have to get it from someone else. When in reality, you use these principles to create a larger pie for you and it creates a vacuum (and nature abhors a vacuum) and so it fills in and becomes larger for everyone else. And there’s an example in the book on how that actually happens in real life so that it doesn’t just all sound metaphysical and “woo-woo”.
TRESTA: Yeah, yeah.
LESLIE: It’s cool, it’s cool.
TRESTA: Well, thank you, thank you, thank you. That was beautiful. I am excited to put this together and to be able to share it.
LESLIE: Thank you for having me again, it’s been fun. I, I’ve always loved being at your events when I get to go and you do a great job. I love your message that, that you’re carrying out, and touching lives and helping families.
TRESTA: Thank you.
LESLIE: It’s an honor to be your friend.
TRESTA: Thank you very much.
ANNOUNCER: This concludes today’s episode of the Rare Faith Podcast. You’ve been listening to Leslie Householder, author of The Jackrabbit Factor, Portal To Genius and Hidden Treasures – Heaven’s Astonishing Help With Your Money Matters. All three
books can be downloaded free at ARareKindofFaith.com. So tell your friends and join Leslie again next time as she goes even deeper into the principles that will help you change your life.
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